tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7327718065135964598.post301213944108514690..comments2023-08-10T15:02:51.259+01:00Comments on The Small Places: Care refusal - a public law puzzleLucy Serieshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07820866715125284389noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7327718065135964598.post-2930183187731256742013-09-23T20:26:56.426+01:002013-09-23T20:26:56.426+01:00I have worked in this area and if assessed need is...I have worked in this area and if assessed need is being met by care outside the LA and this is not sustainable, then the LA does not ignore the need, but keepts it under review or the very least it is discussed so that it can be met.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7327718065135964598.post-53521483022438444522013-02-22T12:48:27.528+00:002013-02-22T12:48:27.528+00:00I agree that assessment objectives are subjective,...I agree that assessment objectives are subjective, and you have to take the specific claim into account. A highly informative article nonetheless and with the ever changing world of law, you have to stay abreast of these changes. It's down to law firms to ensure that they are on top of this if they are to provide the highest possible service for their clients. Vertex Lawhttp://www.vertexlaw.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7327718065135964598.post-86848480671939254032013-01-11T14:05:39.464+00:002013-01-11T14:05:39.464+00:00Hi there,
I might have got this wrong, but I'...Hi there,<br /><br />I might have got this wrong, but I'd always understood that LA's are able to sign off care plans where the LA isn't meeting all needs but where the carers are meeting some of them because a need is only eligible for services if it isn't being met in any other way. If it's being met by carers, it isn't eligible. LA's obviously play fast and loose with this though, not probing too deeply what needs carers are genuinely willing and able to provide, and what is sustainable.<br /><br />In the Khana case, the concern was that the carers couldn't meet the eligible needs because of Mr Karim's back problems and because of emotional burnout. 'It considered that Mr Karim could not cope and that neither the family nor two bed ground floor accommodation could take care of Mrs Khana's needs' (paragraph 17, CoA). Having said that, it was disputed in some evidence, but the CoA seemed to accept that view.Lucy Serieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07820866715125284389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7327718065135964598.post-88696674848710960082013-01-11T13:35:47.684+00:002013-01-11T13:35:47.684+00:00Hi Lucy
But local authorities do sign of care pla...Hi Lucy<br /><br />But local authorities do sign of care plans that do not meet all necessary needs when the client needing say 24/7 care has family carers who may offer the other 'needs' that are not put down for services, but are expected or stated to be provided by the family carer(s). The whole of a community care assessment is rather 'loose' and I am very familiar with them. In the Khana Case the family saying they would provide care (albeit requesting another residence to enable this- perhaps in a better way) might have been the 'hidden' issue.<br /><br />As to claims under HRA the cost/ time will be a deterrent I suspect. Older people do not always live long and want to spend the time they have in security of the known often.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7327718065135964598.post-29795934161061131322013-01-11T13:22:16.651+00:002013-01-11T13:22:16.651+00:00Hi Anonymous and tbc,
I am in total agreement wit...Hi Anonymous and tbc,<br /><br />I am in total agreement with both your comments (although, Anonymous, do you think in light of Rabone that people may have more success bringing claims under the HRA rather than negligence?). <br /><br />But I suppose the point I'm trying to make isn't so much about whether emotional needs should be included in the assessment (I think they should), but it's about whether LA's can sign off care plans which they acknowledge don't meet a person's assessed eligible needs, because the person has refused the care plan that would meet their eligible needs. I think Khana makes this really unclear. <br /><br />And if LA's *are* willing to sign off care plans that don't meet all eligible needs, then when you've got a situation where a person with questionable capacity is refusing res care (which would meet all their needs) in favour of living at home (where either they couldn't be met, or they couldn't be met within the resources available), then it seems to me that following CC v KK you have to produce both care plans in order to properly assess their capacity?Lucy Serieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07820866715125284389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7327718065135964598.post-81812307354398454152013-01-11T13:14:20.926+00:002013-01-11T13:14:20.926+00:00Assessed needs are somewhat subjective as the Depa...Assessed needs are somewhat subjective as the Department of Health comments in the inquiry into the Care and Support Bill rightly note. Two social workers might take a different view of information from an assessment, each collecting it separately from the same client. Even the way assessment of capacity is undertaken is a moveable feast to suit the local authority.<br /><br />As to any possible negligence actions against local authorities- doubtful if lawyers will go there. It is more difficult to prove causality that failure to provide services or going against the wishes of the client based on knowledge of circumstances/culture would be causal to harm of e.g. death of person going downhill within days of transfer to care home after ongoing protest from client and family about the likely consequences , even when it is known and accepted that this occurs as such moves are severely traumatic. For medical cases most lawyers will say that is hard enough to take these on, except in very clear cut cases.<br /><br />So local authorities will continue to do what suits them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7327718065135964598.post-24840367734108310892013-01-11T10:48:53.005+00:002013-01-11T10:48:53.005+00:00It may all boil down to the question of what the p...It may all boil down to the question of what the persons's assessed eligible needs are. If one of their needs is for emotional wellbeing/good mental health, and that need cannot be met by placing them in a care home, then there seems much more scope for arguing that there is no black and white distinction between 'meeting all assessed eligible needs in a care home' and 'not meeting all assessed eligible needs in a family home'. If views on best interests and/or a focus on physical needs alone creeps into the public law assessment of need, this should open the door to a more nuanced approach.tbcnoreply@blogger.com